Why Benchmarking Matters More Than Ever

In this episode of On the Move, Jennifer Karpus-Romain sits down with Sarah Ahern of PATH Growth to discuss the value of benchmarking, strategic growth, and the evolving role of sales and marketing in transportation. As TMSA's partner on the 2026 Sales & Marketing Benchmark Study, Sarah shares why industry data matters, what organizations can learn from comparing performance against peers, and the trends shaping the future of transportation marketing and business development. 

The conversation also explores lessons from Sarah's work with executive leadership teams, insights from her ELEVATE company leader session, and practical advice for organizations seeking sustainable growth.

Check out the Transportation Sales and Marketing Association (TMSA) website or engage with us on LinkedIn.

Transcript

Welcome And Why Benchmarking Now

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Hello, everyone, and welcome to On the Move, a show where we share transportation sales and marketing success stories. I'm Jennifer Carpis Romaine, Executive Director of TMSA, a trade nonprofit educating and connecting marketing and sales professionals in transportation and logistics. And today on the show, I'm excited to have Sarah Ahern, partner at Path Growth. How are you doing today, Sarah? I'm great. How are you? I'm good. I'm so excited to have you back on the show, and we get to talk about all things benchmarking, because that is what you do as a profession. And we are starting our own benchmarking process here at TMSA. You really do spend a lot of time working with transportation companies on growth strategy. And so I know benchmarking is a piece of that, but I'm curious, just overall, what are leaders wrestling with today that feels different from even a year or two ago?

SPEAKER_00 1:16

It's such a great question. So at Path to your point, we are a market research and business management firm. We help organizations identify the missing signals that allow their leaders to act with confidence on the critical business decisions that matter most. And with that in mind, we've been working in supply chain transportation logistics for all 42 years we've been in business. And it is kind of an interesting time in the market. We were in COVID, where I think maybe the entire world was educated on what logistics is. It kind of became an industry, I think many of us obviously knew and knew it was so important, but it really came on the main stage in such a big way during the pandemic. And what the what it seems, the effect it seems to have had is that it's matured buyers. That kind of at the beginning

How COVID Changed Buyer Expectations

SPEAKER_00 2:15

it was very much about what can you do for me? How can you make my job easier? Now the transformation that you know clients are are demanding from their companies is how can you make my business better, which is a higher bar. And so it really is creating an interesting opportunity for people to either move ahead of the market and say, okay, I get that and I understand how I need to respond to my clients, my customers to deliver on that, or potentially be left behind. So it's it's a really interesting time in the market right now.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

So we at CUSA have a benchmarking study that we do every other year, and we partner with Path Growth to help us develop that benchmarking study. So we first partnered with you guys back in 2024, which was a game changer. We've been doing this study for over 10 years, but um we put it in the hands of the professionals to make it as best it could. And you guys were like, here's 30 pages of data that's really relevant for our members. And I was like, this is amazing. Thank you. Um, one of the reasons why, and what we're kind of going through in this benchmarking, we do have our survey open. If people want to participate in it, it's open for about four or more days when this will be um debuting, but we do want to make companies make smarter decisions. Like you said, that's what people they want to be able to actually grow their business and use data in a way that's actually going to help. Is that why you think benchmarking is so important right now?

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Yeah. I mean, it's a personal pet peeve of mine. I hate wasting my time or working harder than I need to on any particular problem, which I feel like is kind of the same thing, wasting time. And I think that's where data comes in so powerfully. As opposed to guessing, we can understand what the market's doing, where customers are, what other or what our peers are doing. So we just have a better understanding of what's going on so we can make better decisions. And that's why I am such a believer in the TMSA sales and marketing benchmark, because it's the only benchmark of its kind. And it's industry-specific data. There are tons of benchmarks out there about marketing, about sales, especially when we think about generically, uh, even B2B specific. But when we think about what it means to do sales in transportation and logistics or do marketing in transportation and logistics, I would imagine people who are new or who have come to this industry would attest that it's a different equation. You and I have talked about this in the past, that understanding the industry trends, the industry, the macro impact of things that are happening in the industry is as important as anything when you're building marketing sales within your organizations and to have to guess about things like, you know, what how much budget are organizations spending? How are they staffing? How are they addressing AI? What kind of technologies are they using to facilitate their marketing and sales automation? You make a lot of mistakes. If you can bring in data from your peers to understand what's working and what's not, you have much better shot at success.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Absolutely. And one of the things that we do when we go to develop this, the survey questions themselves is like, so first you and I and your team sit and we're like, okay, what had we heard for the past two years from members or questions that people had? And even um, like we've had over the past couple years, we've been like, Oh, I wish I could get more information on this, or or where can I find this in the benchmark? And if it's something we don't have, I send it immediately to your team. I'm like, let's mark this so that we know to add it. And then we were with our membership committee, who's also talking to members often getting that information. And that's how we kind of combile combined and compile all of that information into the survey and really making sure that we're hitting all of the things that are most important to sales and marketing today. So, as I mentioned, the survey, you can scan it here if you're interested in participating. It is about 20 minutes and you can be put in a raffle to in a $75 visa gift card. But what are you hoping that people can learn from this results? I want to give our listeners today a reason to participate. If for nothing else, the more participation we have, the

Why Industry Specific Benchmarks Matter

SPEAKER_01 6:40

truer the benchmark is. Because the more people that participate, the more, you know, of that level of people of different parts of the industry participate. But what are you hoping that they learn?

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Yeah, the best benchmarks are a balance of kind of your core best practice questions and then strategic questions. I think you so beautifully framed up those strategic questions. What am I facing right now? What may be different this year that I have questions about than in 2024? We the the most important thing is that we represent the association's members' voice in that. And to your point, bring in membership, bring in questions that you've heard at conferences or questions that you've heard as new members on board. The other side of that is a really solid foundation of best practice questions. And we've always used in past surveys kind of the marketing for Ps, this idea of understanding the products and services we have in the market, the price, the place, how we're promoting it. This year we're bringing in brand new 4Ps for sales, specifically to sit right alongside of it, looking at people, looking at sales process at pipeline, at sales performance, so that organizations can truly look at their whole go-to-market engine. Because I think that is, and I'd be interested to hear your feedback too, is something that we are seeing quite a bit, is that it's no longer sales sitting over here and throwing things across the organization to marketing or vice versa. That these are two functions that have to be fully integrated to drive that revenue engine through one clean lens. And so our survey instrument this year really reflects that maturation in the market as well.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

I agree. I think that we continue to be more sophisticated in our sales and marketing alignment. And there's still in some places that friction between them, but I'm seeing that less and more teams understanding that they're both on the same team. They're just in different parts of the pipeline. And so they both have shared revenue goals. This is what the, you know, what we're trying to do. This is how we get leads, this is how we pass good leads off, this is who's in charge of that. And so having that open dialogue and actual meetings, like I've seen some of our members are actually having like sales and marketing internal summits at their companies now, because that like monthly marketing meeting isn't going to cut it to give you real output that you're looking for. And so kind of upping the game there in a real way, is what I'm seeing for sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Yeah. I mean, even thinking about that dynamic of how customer expectations have changed from making my job easier to making my business better, that's different messaging. It's more robust messaging. It has to be more precise on who that organization is and what they need and want. For organizations to be able to respond to that, it takes both a marketing mind and a sales mind to create something really powerful. And I think, you know, the pandemic accelerated accelerated that as well, as we had to get further away from our buyers. You know, sales needed the kind of intel that marketing can provide. We are in a world where automation is really transforming every sales outreach, every marketing outreach. Again, rising tides lift all boats. More collaboration means we get more out of our technology investments, more out of our sales investments, more out of our marketing investments really sets us apart from other organizations that may be using kind of this old paradigm. So, you know, we're we're fortunate enough to partner with many transportation and logistics companies to do their customer benchmarking, their employee associate benchmarking. And I can say for certain that the ones that are really crushing it are collaborating in meaningful ways. And so this benchmark brings some data to the table to help you do that without having to guess. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

And at Elevate a couple of weeks ago, you facilitated a discussion among company leaders. I'm curious, what were some of those conversations that really stuck with you from there?

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Yeah, you know, I think that it was interesting to hear that so many of these company leaders have noticed that change in one way or the other. Uh, there were a lot of premium providers in the room. I think there are a lot of premium providers within the TMSA member populations. So when I say premium, I mean companies that are really differentiating on the robustness of their service, on you know, how people can expect these organizations to serve their businesses. And I think what they said is that it's really hard to deliver at that level. You know, when we think about what not only sales and marketing have to do, but what operations, HR, that really the entire organization has to do, how much coordination it requires to give this experience that their clients are wanting and demanding that create those long-term loyal client relationships. It's a really high bar. And a lot of the people in that room were saying, you know, we are doing our best, but this exact thing is what keeps us up at night. And so hearing that, I think, you know, both allowed peers in the room to say, okay, it's not just me having this struggle, it's lots of organizations like me. But it also, I think, starts to breed this conversation of how can we do this better? Is

Designing The Survey For Real Use

SPEAKER_00 12:10

there an opportunity to share best practices to do this better as we kind of define what the future of the industry looks like?

SPEAKER_01 12:19

And were there any themes in that that really surprised you from those executive discussions or from the rest of the conference or any conversations that you're having with your clients?

SPEAKER_00 12:30

I wouldn't say it surprised me, but what I loved, um, one of the other service providers called this out as she was listening to some of the company leaders uh talk, is that the foundation of all of this is culture. Path actually stands for people are the how because you know, though we are a data company, our core belief and what we've seen in the 42 years we've been in business is at the end of the day, it is about people. It, you know, if you can bring people, whether it's your employees, your customers, the market to the center of your decision-making process and really focus on how you can drive value for them, that's what allows organizations to survive decade after decade, reinventing themselves is really staying close to their customers and their people. And that was kind of the underpinning under all of these conversations, is that you can't really do any of this functional work without a strong culture. And we we've been kind of evangelizing evangelizing that message at path for a long time. But I think that organizations are really starting to get it, even as we go into this chapter of business that's very data AI focused and kind of is encouraging us to maybe put more layers between us and our people. I think organizations kind of feel that maybe that's not the best choice in every instance, at every decision, in every experience. And I think that is what's gonna anchor all of us as companies as we decide how to leverage technology because that is coming, right? There's no avoiding it. We use a ton of technology in our business. So many of our clients do as well. But I think it's remembering that at the end of the day, the technology is only ever the tool. It's never really the solution. And that we have to focus in on people to be able to do that effectively.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

I agree. I think even when we have so many conversations around AI, like to me, the best AI, the best tech is equipping your team, your people to be more efficient and to take away like the manual data and the things so that they can be people faster to your customers, to your prospects, so they can have empathy and things like that that the you know the robots just can't do the same way that our people can, or be able to provide more professional development for our people, you know, more time to do that, to spend more time investing in our people so that they can invest back into your business for your customers. So I love that you said that. Um, and a reminder what Peth stands for, because it's always so powerful when you talk about it, especially because you guys are numbers, data, and you're like, but we still believe people are the purpose, and that's why it's in my our name every day. Yes, exactly. I love that. One of the things I find really interesting about benchmarking is that I find that a lot of times companies think that their challenges are unique, but then they also discover that then everyone is actually wrestling with the same issues and they have these benchmarking, and they're like, hey, look, like we're not alone. These people have these same problems, but then they struggle to kind of use that data to actually make it actionable to do anything with. So is that something that you guys see too?

SPEAKER_00 15:56

A hundred percent. I think you do talked about the 30 pages of data. I think for those of us who are data nerds, I'll count myself as one of those. Like, I more data the better. Send it over. And I know that that's usually predictive of failure, that more data doesn't all doesn't ever mean better insights. And that's why I think an opportunity like benchmarking is so powerful. Because yes, are we gonna benchmark the four P's of marketing and sales? Are we gonna benchmark all of these strategic questions? Of course, technology being one of them, yes, across the board. But every time, whether it's an association benchmark, an employee benchmark, a customer benchmark, there are clearly things that matter more than other things. And that's really the opportunity here is to, you know, partner with somebody like you with tremendous industry expertise, partner with an organization like ours where we can use advanced statistical modeling and then all of the years that we've been in this industry to interpret those and prioritize them to the most important things. Because I think that that kind of synthesis that really makes a difference. Like, I don't know if you feel this way. I am not a you know, 40-page menu kind of gal. I'm like, curate it for me. Give me some really clear, great options. I can make such a better decision from that. And you're the expert. You know, it's your restaurant, you tell me what's great and what you excel at. It's the same idea here. You let experts curate what is really driving organizations to achieve more, to grow more, to be better. And then from there, you get to say, okay, these are the top three to five key insights. I can decide from my organization which one is we're primed for, or

Sales Marketing Alignment That Performs

SPEAKER_00 17:45

which one feels the most strategically aligned with where we're trying to take our organization. And so that that is one side of action. And then the other side, not to keep on harping on people, but the other side is we just have to represent the organization's voices in the room. We're huge cross-functional team, people. Change is painful when it happens to us, not with us. So if we get the right team of influencers together that really are a voice of the organization, bring this data to them, the magic happens in their interpretation. And then they can go out to the organization and advocate for it. So synthesizing it down to key insights, getting the right people from your organization that are really influential and can drive and represent the organization in a powerful way is the magic equation.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

That's why the way, like, yes, we have 30 pages of data for ours, but the whole beginning is that key insight. Yes, this is the biggest things that everyone should be paying attention to. And then it gets into the weeds a little bit by design, but the weeds of like what's going to matter to different roles in the industry. So, like, yes, we have a separate section for sales, separate section for marketing, because yes, your marketing practitioner, your marketing coordinator may really want to understand what the current open rate is for email campaigns in the industry right now so that they can confirm salespeople are not gonna care about that. Just like your sales leader may be interested to see how different companies um break down their sales team. Is it by geography or is it by like client company type or anything like that? Like, but marketing's not gonna care the same way. So, like we put the key finding so you can really take those big chunks, and then we break it down so that anyone can grab what they need as their own key finding as well, which I think is a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

And I I think in part it's so helpful to do that because there have been some really key transformations within the sales function, to your point exactly, within the marketing function. You know, I think you I do sales in my position, the way that sales has changed in the past two years with the advent of AI, with you know, the ability to really customize outreach to every individual buyer in a much more meaningful way, has made it harder to authentically connect with buyers. And so the sales team having specific information for them about where the industry is going, the trends, the opportunities is so important. Contrast that against the fact that marketing has been going through the same transformation. You know, I don't know about you, but LinkedIn is so different, even over the past 12 months, than I feel like it's ever been since I joined LinkedIn. I think it was in 2007 or 2008, um, because of our ability to push content out in this mass push that we've never been able to do before. So, how do you break through the noise? You know, and then how do you do it in a B2B environment where the buying center is complex? These are things where you really you need information that's specific to your position so that you can empower yourself to make great decisions, to build the right teams, to have the right technology to do what you need to do.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

And my next question, I feel like you already answered, but if you have anything else to add to like when you look at those high-performing organizations, what are they doing when it comes to sales, marketing, and growth?

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Yes. Um, one of the gentlemen in the company leader discussion called out what I feel like is seems to be the key. And and we were a uh a part of a sales and marketing benchmark. This was not for transportation and logistics specifically, but we partnered with the marketing organization to do a sales and marketing uh alignment and collaboration benchmark. I think it was in 2021, so right in kind of the heat of the pandemic. Um, and this was a key insight from that study to one leader. It seems to be so predictive of success for the collaboration of these two two organizations, is one leader that really gets both sides of the equation and believes in both sides of the equation. So that leader can. Look at the vision that incorporates the best of and you know supercharges both functions by integrating them. That seems to be so important. And this gentleman was calling it out as well.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

I look that just put um like a full loop in my brain together that I didn't know was still open. And this is so silly. But when we built the new learning tracks for TMSA, part of why we had like the primary and parallel track situation is because so many of our members were like VP of sales and marketing. And we're like, well, they fit two buckets. And so we're and so we're like, we need them to like pick whichever one they kind of lead with or want more knowledge or more information or where they may want to network the most, but then still have that parallel track so they can go to and then same with like somebody is in the beginning stages of their career, but they want to like take the next step and still be getting that information. But it's funny that you say that because especially in this industry, we see so many of that lead as both over sales and marketing. And this makes sense to me now that you say that from a benchmarking standpoint, because we have a lot of those roles in TMSA, and we're like, well, how do we how do we reach them and give them what they need? So that's kind of funny. But um, so our benchmarking study in its complete report, we give it to members as a member perk of um being able to have that. If people participate in the survey, we will give out like the key findings as like a thank you for participating. But what is the best way to use those findings instead of just keeping them on the shelf? Like we really want to make sure, you know, we've kind of given that scope, like make sure you're looking through the key findings for you, finding those pieces. But

Culture And People In An AI Era

SPEAKER_01 23:40

is there any other nuggets of knowledge that you have for those that would be utilizing our survey?

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yeah, you know, the best way to use this information, especially if this is kind of um atypical for your organization, if maybe you're not using data in this way and you're kind of building a new function, is the repetition of it. Um I'll I'll speak to AI. So we do this, a lot of our clients do this, that anytime you're trying to drive any sort of cultural shift, whether it's using technology like AI or you know, using benchmarking insights to drive change across your organization, it does take a certain amount of repetition and a certain amount of allowing it to breathe and allowing people to try and use it so they can come back to question, come back with questions to work. And so we've seen that whether it's in your regularly scheduled monthly business review, just creating a little bit of space in that conversation to keep coming back to the insights and seeing how people use them, how they don't, successes, challenges, share opportunities, or just merely remind them that it exists and they can use it. But doing it month after month until you start to build some culture around it and it starts to become second nature, we've seen that again, time and time again, being so important to really integrating these insights. And then I think having an owner, somebody that that really cares about it within your organization and wants to drive it, facilitate that discussion on that regular cadence can be really powerful as well. Because they're always going to be a super user. They're always gonna be the ones that are kind of always having it in the back of their mind, thinking about creative ways to use it. And their energy can power people to start exploring and using it as well. And so, like I said, any kind of change, I'm a big believer in that model, but I think this data thing does take a certain amount of repetition to really get in people's brains so they know how to use it.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

I think too, just really thinking through budget season and like what you're asking for. So, like, yeah, I mean, we talk all of the time how hard it is for a marketing person to like prove that ROI and ask for new things and get the budget to get them. And so utilizing so our benchmarking study will come out in September. You can still do this survey for now. I'm about to take this off and put other things up, but um having that benchmarking and being like, hey, we are behind here compared to the rest of the industry, and this is why I'm asking for this, and this is what I can do with that line item increase. Like having the data, it's not just you being like, please give me more money to do this thing. It's hey, we are behind, and this is how we can grow, or this is how we could speed ahead of our competitors, or this is how we can do that with the data proving why you need it. And it's so that's just giving you more, you know, tools in your toolbox to get what you need to be successful. Like it's really hard, especially as like a one-person marketing team, to do all things, but then really focusing on like, okay, where are we falling behind? Where are we ahead? And like understanding that can be, you know, really important to uh our members and being able to use that for for the people you're pitching to to get your your budget approved or your next action done.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Yes. I mean, it a hundred percent. I I won't say never, but very rarely do I talk to anybody in these two functions that says, Oh, I never have to fight internally for resources. I have the biggest team that I could ever imagine. I have everything I could possibly want. Nope, don't worry about me. I very, very, very rarely is that the case. Usually it's no, I'm fighting for buy-in, I'm fighting for capital, I'm fighting for more team members, I'm fighting to get what I need, what I know I need to drive this conversation because you're competing with lots of other things in the organization. So I think that's such a great call out.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

And one thing that we like to do is make sure that we help you guys understand the data and what is the most important and how to make it applicable. So we are offering two things. So September 17th at 1 to 2 p.m. ET. This is a members-only um webinar, but we will be um showing you the key findings and having peer breakouts. So, as you guys know, we launched our tracks this year: five tracks, company leader, sales leader, marketing leader, marketing practitioner, sales practitioner. We plan to break you guys out in that and making sure that you guys know what is most applicable for your role as well as the overall key findings. So definitely join us. We're so excited to present that. And then if you want to even deeper dive into the benchmarking, really understanding how everything can be put together, how to utilize it, and hear more from Sarah's expertise on benchmarking and data, you can join us in Pittsburgh. We are doing a regional event there sponsored by Pitt Ohio and um brought to you, the data brought to you by Path. That's gonna be September 23rd, 1 to 4 p.m. E.T. in Pittsburgh. So I'm really excited to be able to do these events because to me, our benchmarking study is one of the most powerful pieces that we have, and we want to make sure that we're maximizing

Making Benchmark Data Actionable

SPEAKER_01 28:55

it and um presenting that information as much as we can, helping people to um, you know, really dissect and digest that data. We can't wait. Yay. Okay, so looking ahead, what do you think transportation sales and marketing leaders should be paying the closest attention to over the next year?

SPEAKER_00 29:16

I think it's this idea of how you make your clients' business better. And and not just clients, I would say how you provide value to your people in general. And I think that authenticity, that connection in this sea of automation that we're all living in, regardless of function, is going to be what cuts through the noise. And so making sure that we're building enough space when we make next when we're having the necessary conversations about how technology transforms our business, how we scale our organizations, all those things that are extremely important, making sure that we're leaving space for the people conversation is gonna be predictive of success. The data says it. I can I could speak from the 11 years that I've been doing this, the 42 years that our business has been doing it, it's always predictive of success. I don't, I don't yet think that's gonna change into the future. So it's a little bit of the back to basics in all of these forward-leaning conversations we're having as organizations.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Amazing. I'm gonna pop up our benchmark survey one more time. So this closes to participate in the survey on Sunday, June 28th. You can win a $75 gift card if you participate. Give us your um email address there. Sarah, do you have any suggestions? Get them motivated one last time to participate in the survey. Again, it takes 20 minutes and you can start and stop and then go back to it as long as you pull it up in the same browser, which I think is a fantastic feature that Path added for us.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Yes, don't compare yourself to B2B benchmarks for other companies or for CPG or for retail. Those metrics are not gonna help you. They're not gonna give you context about your job, how your customers are working, you know, perceptions internally to the industry, the four Ps of marketing and sales. The only way to do that is to participate in this benchmark. So just compare apples to apples so that you can make the best decisions and have the best opportunity for success.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Absolutely. Um, we love people to participate and um happy to always get the information. I love data as well. I love it even more because you so nicely crunch it for me and tell me all the key findings as we go through it as well, which is why you need a good data partner. Um, so you've been on the show before. So I'm not gonna ask you my last question that I normally ask people. I'm gonna ask you the second question that I ask people when they return. So that is

Survey Deadline And Member Events

SPEAKER_01 31:50

if you could relive a day in your life and you don't really get to change anything, you just get to relive it. What day would you go back to and why?

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Oh, that's such a good question. I I feel fortunate that I've had so many amazing days. But I'll I'll just give you one in theme with what I'm trying to embody this summer. I I don't know if you've heard of this uh trend of 90s summer analog summer that's been kind of sweeping the nation. And I had the the good fortune of, you know, I live by my family. So Path is a family business. My mom started the company 42 years ago. I I have the great fortune of working with my brother as well. We we managed the business. Um, so we had all of our families together. It was a beautiful summer day. We were hanging out in on the back patio, grilling out, and it just felt like the the endless summer that I'm trying to manifest. And I'll take infinite more of those days: kids playing, beautiful weather, music, good food. That that's about as good as it gets from my perspective.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

I love that, and I feel like Ohio weather has been crazy this summer. So take that day of sunshine because I'm sure the rain is coming the next day. Um, it's it's been crazy this summer, but love that. And I think

A Perfect Summer Day And Closing

SPEAKER_01 33:10

we can all relate to that perfect summer day where everyone's just in the sunshine and having a great time. So thank you so much for joining me on the show this week and for all that you do for the benchmarking study. And speaking of summer breaks, this is now on the move summer break. This is our last episode. We will come back in August. And if you want to come on the show, we love to highlight our members and what they're doing and all things. So here is a quick QR code that you can scan to come on the show. We would love to have you. Um, but yeah, we know everyone goes on summer break and does their own thing in July. So we will do the same and we will get back to you in August. So thank you guys again for listening. Thank you for coming on the show, Sarah. And I will catch you guys in a couple months. Have a good one.