Launching What’s Next: Growth, Leadership, and the Formula L Vision with Holly LaBoda

Growth shouldn’t feel like getting dragged behind the wagon. We sat down with Holly LaBoda, Chief Growth Officer and Founder of Formula L, to unpack why logistics sales so often stall despite high effort and how to make results feel smoother, faster, and far more predictable. Holly has spent decades building sales strategies and leader capabilities across transportation and logistics, and she shares a clear blueprint for turning alignment into momentum.

We start by exposing the subtle frictions that sabotage execution: proposal tools that encourage commodity pricing when leaders want consultative selling, incentives that chase RFP volume instead of value, and a patchwork of processes that confuse sellers about the “right way” to win. Holly explains why outcomes are visible but misleading, and why coaching the behaviors behind those outcomes matters more than policing dashboards. From there, we break down a smarter order of operations; strategy first, systems and enablement next, and technology last, so organizations stop buying tools for problems they haven’t defined. The conversation gets practical about implementation, ongoing onboarding, and the leadership habits that keep change sticky when calendars are full.

Holly also introduces Formula L, a sales operating system made for logistics teams. We explore each stage - Illuminate to assess and roadmap growth, Leverage to refine processes, Lead to equip managers as coaches, and Lift to sharpen seller skills - built on a quarterly loop that keeps strategy, incentives, and tools aligned. The result is less chaos, more clarity, and a path where reps sell better, not just faster. If growth feels heavy, this conversation shows how to remove the drag and build a system that does the pulling.

If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a teammate who’s wrestling with alignment, and leave a quick review so others can find it. Your feedback helps us bring more conversations that turn effort into outcomes.

Check out the Transportation Sales and Marketing Association (TMSA) website or engage with us on LinkedIn.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Background

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 0:23

Hello, everybody, and welcome to On the Move, a show where we share transportation, sales, and marketing success stories. I am Jennifer Carpis Romain, Executive Director of TMSA, a trade nonprofit educating and connecting marketing and sales professionals in transportation and logistics. And today on the show, I have Holly Laboda, Chief Growth Officer and Founder of Formula L. How are you doing today, Holly? I'm doing so great. So great to be here with you and talking about this. Yes, I'm very excited. We have known each other for a long time now through TMSA. We served on the board together on the education committee. Then you came into a leadership role on the board, serving as education chair. And then I moved over to HQ here at TMSA. We actually did the first TMSA LinkedIn Live together, which seems like a million years ago at this point. But for anyone who kind of doesn't know your story arc and your time, tell us about your career and all the work that you've done that have gotten you to Formula L.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Oh, yes. Okay, of how to sum it up really quick. Very quick. So I've been uh I've been working in sales development and specifically in like logistics industry sales development for a couple of decades now. Um I worked internally at CH Robinson for about 10 years.

Career Arc To Formula L

SPEAKER_00 1:48

For the last eight years, I've run a company called Luminaries Consulting, and now I'm jumping into a new chapter called Formula L, which we're here to talk about today. Um, but I have loved all of this kind of work, like the strategy development and leadership development and process improvement and talent development. And uh it's just it's just like called to me kind of throughout my career. And logistics has been a space that has been um very good to me too. Like it's so much fun, it's so challenging, it changes every day that that gets to be a lot, but it keeps us on our toes and it's so much fun. So I do love those spaces I work in.

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 2:22

Absolutely, and yes, I was kind of laughing when I introduced you because a lot of people would be like, Oh, I thought she was at Luminaries, and you are starting a new chapter, and it's very exciting um to watch you kind of launch something new again and really working through that. So, what shifted you to kind of build Formula L right now with why is right now the right moment for this shift for you?

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Yeah, um, you know, I really think of it as like this, you know, you have like your evolution and your revolution, and I think this is definitely like an evolutionary thing for me. Um, you know, over the last eight years of running this kind of these kinds of companies and working with all kinds of leaders in logistics spaces and helping their sales teams grow, we've learned a lot. Um, and even at Luminaries, we were kind of evolving into this kind of what I'm doing now, not just working on developing the talent, but helping the leaders build their capabilities because the talent development will only get so far if the leaders aren't modeling and coaching and holding people accountable in the right way, clarifying the growth strategy, building the good systems. All of this stuff has to come together. And we've been kind of moving in that direction, especially over the last like three years, I would say. And this is really like distilling everything that I've learned about what does and doesn't work in logistics sales growth into a system to make it a little bit easier for people to do.

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 3:42

And over the years, we've had a lot of those conversations and about growth. Like you said, you know, if there's only so far you can go if the leadership isn't coaching and doing things the right way. So there's kind of this like what sounds good versus what actually works. So, what are you seeing companies get wrong right now when they say they want to grow, but then they're not actually doing that proper work to get to where they need to?

SPEAKER_00 4:07

Yeah.

What Companies Get Wrong About Growth

SPEAKER_00 4:08

I think it's it's very easy for people to focus on the wrong thing or start in the wrong place when it comes to growth. Because when we're talking about sales, um, you know, all of the like the outcomes that you're aiming for are just so painfully visible to everybody. And it sounds so simple. Um, if we're not hitting our sales numbers, well, we just need to do more selling or help our sellers be better sellers. And yes, that might be part of the situation. It could be some capability development on your team, it could be that people just need more activity, but it's probably more than that. I find usually like people don't run into these growth challenges for lack of effort or lack of good intention. It's because it's just not easy enough to follow the right path. And sometimes there are things that are slowing people down, like friction in their process, they don't even realize is there because you don't you don't feel it all the time. So pulling some of that out makes growth like easier, more predictable, um, rather than just like shoving a new tool or shoving a new program down people's throat and like hoping you get some ROI.

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 5:15

Absolutely. I think a lot of times um I see people focus on like the beginning, like, oh, I have a new hire, let me train them, let me do their onboarding for a couple of months, but then they just are like, oh, then they know everything. And that's not the case. You have to do continued training, making sure you're doing um proper touch points and stepping up. So I think it's clear that Formula L may be a new brand, but this is clearly built on a lot of experience. Like you said, you've had decades of experience, which is crazy to me because you look so young and but um I it's been cool to like watch our careers grow together and see you build into something. Um and I know yeah, we talked a lot about developing those leaders. So what problem are you then most excited to help leaders solve through this work and really helping them to execute on as you move along?

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Well, I think that a lot of a lot the the part that like the outcome that I'm most excited to deliver for leaders is like a little just a little bit less of like the the feeling of the chaos and the the pain of growth. I don't know if you feel this way, like have ever felt this way in your work life or your personal life, but sometimes you just feel like you're kind of getting run over by stuff, like you're doing all the same things, you get a little exhausted, you're like, why is this so hard? And I work with all kinds of sales leaders that I whether they say that or not, I can tell are feeling that way. And it just doesn't have to be that hard. And creating some clarity at the beginning, aligning your system so they're working for you, not against you, that's where all the chaos and the the pain of the growth comes from. And once you can start putting some of those pieces together, you're creating just a much smoother road for you to ride on and grow on.

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 7:02

And I think part of that is just an alignment breakdown. Like what where where are we going? How are we coaching? What is the path? What is the process? When it comes to that breakdown, where does that growth kind of usually stall first? Is it in a strategy, in the leadership, in the execution, in the team? Where are we seeing that that friction kind of begin?

SPEAKER_00 7:26

I think the the where it shows up like most painfully and obviously to me, at least from my like my lens that I approach it with, is in the execution part. So that's that's where you see it, where you're like, oh, just my my sellers don't want to sell enough. It's usually not that. It's usually like a system that you're putting into

Friction, Misaligned Incentives, And Execution

SPEAKER_00 7:46

their execution that's making it harder for them to do what you're asking them to do. For example, I'm working with a client right now who's we're working on a big playbook and we were working on um a certain piece of it, and they're like, we need better proposals, so let's put some proposal tools out there. And they started to talk about the rate sheets that they sent. And I'm like, hold on, you want people selling consultatively, but you're giving them rate sheets as a proposal tool. Here, that's a conflict, that's some friction. And I had another another client a couple of years ago who wanted to do like a consultative selling development with their folks, and they kicked off the session by talking about how they were going to incent them for all the RFPs they're going after. And I was like, hold up, you're incenting them to do something that is very different than what you're telling them you want them to do. So there's a conflict. So sometimes it's just about pulling that stuff apart and saying, if this is where you want to go, let's make sure all the system that's underneath your sellers aligned with this. That's what helps you get to your goal.

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 8:47

Do you find that when you're in those conversations with leaders that they um respond to that well and they're like, oh, absolutely, Holly, this is the missing piece. Or are they like, no, we're gonna keep doing it our way? Like, how do you get them to buy in that that process should be aligned in that way?

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Well, there's a lot of good influence skills that are needed there, that's for sure. Um, but usually, you know, I work with companies who usually are open to a partnership and want that kind of advice. And if they don't, then I won't work with them. Um, but or we would call it a day at some point. Um, but I usually I just start by asking a question and pointing out the gaps. So you're telling me you want this, and then you're doing this. How does that feel to you? And then we start to solve it together. So I'm usually not telling them, hey, you're doing something really, really wrong here. I'll just point out like this is what you told me you want, and this is what you're telling your team. Let's talk about how those things don't align.

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 9:48

And then how do you trickle that down into the team to start then making those changes is and them to understand the reason why those shifts and changes are happening is because you're trying to align that process better for them ultimately.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Yeah, well, it's alignment, exactly, is the word that you use. So we start with clarifying or creating that strategy. We roll that strategy out to the team. So every time we're talking about a big shift, it's not, hey, we're rolling out, you know, this this new program or this new CRM or we're holding you accountable to this for like a random reason because we want to be big brother. It's because we want to make it easier for you to hit your goals and we want to make it easier and more predictable for the company to hit their goals. And then once you kind of create that, there's still some change management and friction that happens with it. But you find if people understand the why enough, and then you create the clarity of the how and make it easy enough for them to do it, you run, you don't have as much friction in the process.

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 10:47

And if someone listening right now is leading a team and they are feeling that that growth is feeling really heavy, maybe heavier than it used to. There's such, like we talked about in this industry, changes always happening and it's really, really fast, and sometimes that can be overwhelming. Kind of what's that first question you would encourage them to ask themselves before they make their next move, before they create a new process or take their next step somewhere?

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Yeah. I think when I see people run into like where that growth feels heavy or the growth feels hard, it's usually

Gaining Leader Buy‑In And Team Alignment

SPEAKER_00 11:20

when their strategy or their intention as an organization outgrow the current system or structure they have. So if you start by asking that question, is what is our strategy or what's our direction? If you don't know the quote, the answer to that question, there's a place to start. Um then figure out once you have that, does our current infrastructure, the structure that our teams live in, the systems that support them, which means like the processes, not just the technology, does all of that align? And if the answer is no, or if you think or if you're not sure, that's the place to start.

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 11:56

Yeah, I always, whether I'm like talking to people on the marketing side, the sales time, operation side, everyone should know like your company goals, your company values, what you're trying to achieve, and then how your part fits into that bubble. And if it doesn't, like that's what I used to, like when I was director of marketing at a company before, I would ask, like people would shoot ideas to me and I'd be like, but how is that achieving our goals? Like, how is that task going to help us get to where we want to go? And yeah, if you don't have the answer to that, I'm not gonna do it because I'm trying to do the things we're trying to do and make sure that my piece of that puzzle aligns to that overall. And I feel like that is a really good place to start because things can turn chaotic very quickly, and it's hard to stop mid-rolling down the hill. So let's stop before we just like teeter over the side and like really think through like how does this piece help? And then also how can we help our teams understand how they fit into that that bigger piece and how with their their sales goals or their quotas, how does that meet our overall company goals? Because then they start to get that clarity of how they fit in overall as well as themselves.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Yeah. And I we always start, I always start work with a client with with a bit of an assessment to kind of get a lay of the land with how how mature or how well set up is your sales organization, and how are your leaders doing, and then how are your sellers doing? And that kind of gets a good perspective of kind of current state, and that can help pull out some of those things that might be slowing us down. And all of a sudden we're like, oh, it makes sense we're feeling this way because we might think we have a sales process, but when I go ask all the sellers what their sales process is, they're telling me all kinds of different things. That happens all of the time. When I ask about commercial strategy, when I ask about who your ideal customers are, I get one answer from the leaders and a very different answer from the salespeople or a hundred different answers from the salespeople. That's when you know there's not alignment.

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 14:01

Absolutely. And then how does kind of we talked

First Questions When Growth Feels Heavy

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 14:06

about how like your strategy is more than just the technology that you use, but technology is a piece of that strategy, how you're using it, how regularly you're using it, how you update it. How do you make sure those two components are working together to create the best output for a team?

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Well, ideally, if I had my druthers, we would say, like, let's start with your strategy and figure out what you're trying to achieve and then how we want to achieve it, then build the systems that we want to have and by processes and kind of approaches to the world, enablement structures. Um, and then we figure out what technology we need to drive some efficiency within that system. We're not always starting from scratch that way, though. Um, so then we have to kind of figure out where the gaps are and shore that up. But putting like layering on tech before you have your strategy and your systems is where potentially you get like things that will slow you down even more. It can create more friction, but at best, you're getting a wasted investment.

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 15:08

Absolutely. And I think that if you invest in your tech before you know exactly what you want the tech to do, that um, like back in my like CRM days, that was one of like the biggest things that I would always like remind people, even coming to TMSA and speak, could be like, well, what is the best CRM system? Like, there isn't one. It's the best for what your needs are at the price point that you have. Like I would do a whole presentation, people would still ask me at the end, I'm like, did you listen to anything? Um, because give me the answer, Jen. Yes. But it's like it's really about um like what you need that system to do. And part of that is checking in with your sales team and being like, what would make your life easier? What do you wish the system would do? Things like that. But it's really um because you need all those things to match and work together, and you want people to use the system, of course. But sometimes people would just like go out and buy it, and then you're like, this system can't even do the three things I really needed to do, or those people. I've been there, we've all been there. We've all been there, and or those those capabilities are at a tier that's so high, and I don't need all the other features, so I don't want to pay for that price point. And then you get that like pushback on the ROI of the systems that you bought. Whereas you did, if you did that systems check, that processes check, making sure, hey, these are like the core things that we really want our technology to do to match what our process does, then you don't end up with that gap. And I feel like I don't know about what you're seeing, but what I'm seeing in the market right now is ROI and all of the things that we're spending money on is hugely important. And so process first tech file.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Yeah, and and most companies just don't need like a sales enablement tech stack that has 42 tools in it, like it's just not necessary. So if you want a bigger bank for your buck, invest in your strategy, invest in your process, invest in your sellers, invest in your leaders, and a little bit of the tech that supports it.

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 17:09

Yeah, and too, like with those 42

Strategy Before Tech And ROI Reality

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 17:12

tools, are you using them? Yeah, like are your team like if your team can't use the tools that have like 40 or let's say four capabilities, how are they gonna get up to that 42? And especially as you see like a lot of the software components come in with like AI tools, and like you definitely want to be creating processes and systems and regulation around how they can use AI in your processes and things like that. So I think people who skip that step are are missing really fundamental pieces of their strategy and how to really maximize your team.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

Yeah, absolutely. And not thinking about how you're going to implement it is also a big challenge with tech, just to keep down that rabbit hole for a second. I mean, most of the there's SaaS selling is like the most uh advanced selling there is all the time for a reason. They're really, really good sellers, but most software as a service, like in sales companies that I have seen, focus less on the implementation side of it. It's like once it's sold, like they're good. And that doesn't help you get your ROI. You really have to think about how you're gonna enable this in within your organization to make your leaders use it, your sellers use it, your customers, depending on what it is, to get to get that um that ROI from it. So sometimes we help our clients with that too.

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 18:31

Absolutely. I think that's really important. And like we talked about at the beginning, like sometimes then we only um focus on the onboarding. So even with like sometimes, okay, we'll sell it, we'll maybe give you like three months and then then you're done. But what about after three months? What happens if you have new team members come in and they're not there during that onboarding? So you still have to create onboarding for them and continued education. Like there's gonna be people who um don't go into the system every day, but still need to know how to use the system, or they'll revert back to the way they used to do things. Like we talked about, you said, oh, if I go into a company and ask a leader what their process is versus each individual seller, it can be all different. And so, you know, creating that rhythm so they're all on the same page, they have that alignment, hugely important. And then it'll make the technology work better anyway. Absolutely. So I want to kind of talk about Formula L in itself for a little bit because, like we talked about, like you have worked in the industry for a long time, you had um a different company, and this is your evolution. And I think that we've all kind of tackled new things. It can be a mix of excitement and risk and scariness. So for you, Holly, what feels most energizing about this new chapter for you?

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Oh, you know, I am I'm super energized by like the I by the system itself, like the product that we're rolling out in this kind of package approach. I think it just it makes sense. It answers so many questions that I've seen so many leaders struggle with over my career. Um, and it just kind of distills it in a way that just is obvious and makes growth like easier on everyone. Um, and that's I'm really excited about that, about working with people a little bit differently, about getting smoother, faster results and making making the growth feel less burdensome and less chaotic to folks.

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 20:28

Do you want to talk a little bit about what that process looks like and what those kind of components will be if people work with you now?

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Yeah, absolutely. So the Formula L is a sales operating system and it's designed to take a little bit of the chaos out of growth. The tagline is stop uh stop chasing growth, start driving it. Like get in, take take the wheel, like to go in that little analogy for a second. Like stop being like a victim of your own growth and start being like a leader in it. Um, so it's starting with helping people clarify their strategy. We call that the illuminate stage. So we just get people a good lay of the land of their current state, we create a growth roadmap together of where they want to be and how to get there, and then we start implementing it. And then the following pieces are leverage, let's figure out what's doing what is working well for you and how we can

Implementation, Onboarding, And Continuous Enablement

SPEAKER_00 21:16

get more of that. That's the systems and processes piece of it. Let's equip your leaders to be able to model, coach, hold people accountable. This is like the key piece that I think no other system that I've seen has pulled together. Um, people underestimate the role that leaders have in this in terms of the accountability and the coaching component. Um, people want to do it well, but it's the first thing they stop doing when they get kind of too overwhelmed. And then the last piece is the lift, and that's where we really work with your sellers to improve their capabilities and make it easier for them to grow too. So it kind of all works together in a in a beautiful way and like feeds each other. So we we go back to the strategy on a quarterly basis and make sure that we're we're still making the progress. That we want, and we reassess it, and then we go back through the rest of the process again and figure out the system changes when our strategy changes. It's just a really good like loop to make it easier to grow.

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 22:11

I love that. Um, I remember seeing kind of early iterations of your dreams, and so it's cool. I always love to watch things go from like that idea stage in somebody's head and then watch them be able to execute it out. So it's really exciting to see that. So congratulations. Of course. So congratulations on the launch. Really excited to see. Um, and with that, like we've been on a bit of parallel journeys here because at TMSA we're launching, how we're doing things differently as well. And as education co-chair, you've been able to provide lots of feedback on our journey of kind of shifting to a track-based model. I hope you haven't big feedback. You're like, lots of feedback. Yeah, no, great feedback. I always tell you that I know that you're never afraid to show your opinion and I like that's true. Um, so you've been deeply involved in education and leadership development throughout your career, but also in the time that you've been at TMSA. And I'm curious how that has kind of shaped the way you think about growth beyond just revenue numbers, even though that's really important. Or has it? Is it just about the money? What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Yeah, it can't it can't be just about the money. That's I mean, that's the outcome, of course. If you're working for a for-profit organization, you have to make profit. Like that's that's the goal that we're all driving towards. But I think the the issue is that because that's so clear and obvious in sales, like it's dollars in other in operations, there's other factors and things like that, but it's it's a little bit uh, it's not quite so in your face as sales. So you either hit your dollars or you don't. And I think the focusing too much on the revenue part of it or the activity part of it, like the effort part of it is part of the challenge. You have to, you have to look at the whole picture to figure out how you create that the the path to growth that really makes the most sense for your organization. So yeah, it can't be just about the money and it can't be just about like the the effort, the muscle.

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 24:13

Yeah, I was thinking as you were talking, I was thinking about that too. Like if you just look at activity, like you can be like, oh wow, I have a sales rep that is crunching and like crushing all the numbers,

Inside Formula L: Illuminate, Leverage, Lead, Lift

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 24:23

they send all the emails, they send so they do so many calls, but if they're not closing those, like if they're if the message isn't aligned, if we're not looking at what they're saying in that, then we're missing you know all the coaching and their effectiveness. Like you the goal would be for them to close more and less so that you they have more opportunity. And so it's not just about I always say there's like I don't believe in like a butt and seat philosophy, like just because the butt is in the seat, I say it more robustly when I'm not um on the air, but like I I've worked in places like that where it's like, oh, the person who was at the office first is working the hardest, and that's not necessarily the case, you know, they could be doing who knows. And so if you're not checking into the quality of the work that they're doing, and I think especially in sales, that's important because they may need coaching on how to sell better, and it's not just about how many calls they make in a day or how many emails they send or LinkedIn messages or whatever. If they're not crafting their messaging right, then they're not gonna get very far.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Absolutely. You know, the seller, like the seller process that we've talked about is always it has to be a balance of you want efficiency and you want effectiveness. So you can't just be doing it faster, you can't just be doing more, but you have to be doing it better. Um, so we have to do both of those things. And that's where really that leadership component is so important because the coaching in the moment, the coaching day-to-day is really where you're gonna know which one of those things your sellers have to do more effectively, um, or if they're if they're doing them well. And I think uh a lot of times we get so stuck in the numbers and the activity, and those are lagging indicators. That's that's stuff, that's stuff you manage. Once they're done, like you can't do anything about it. But if you focus on the behavior side, so we manage, we manage the outcomes, but we coach the behaviors. If you focus on the behavior side, that's where you can get your sellers to be more efficient, more effective, more in line with your strategy and what your customers really want.

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 26:27

Absolutely. I am so happy that you came on the show and then we got to talk about your you know, new um engagement, your new company, where you're going for 2026. Um and I'm always helpful or I always appreciate your help with my own settling and and counseling on that, um, such as you know, going to trade shows, which will be at manifest together in a week or so here. Um I have said on the show like a few times that I'm terrible at going up to trade show booths and announcing myself. That helps me be better at that. Yeah. But I'm better um now. But appreciate your time both in everything that you do for TMSA and um just coming on the show today. But I do have one more question for you. So you've been on the show before, so I can't ask you my normal question, but I do have a second question I ask return guests, and that's if you could relive one day of your life over again. You don't get to change anything, you're just reliving the day. What day would you go back to and why?

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Oh I would, you know, I was thinking about this because you said this in advance, and I was like, gosh, I feel like two answers came to mind. Can I give you a short version of each? Because they're both like, absolutely. I'm I'm such a cheater. I never follow instructions like this. Okay, so I would say, like, first is the most boring answer, but my favorite days are we have a we have a lake home up in northern Minnesota, and like my family will go up there and we'll just days where we're just out, the kids are playing outside, we're doing yard work, we're eating on the deck,

Beyond Revenue: Effectiveness Over Activity

SPEAKER_00 28:04

we're going on the boat, like those are untouchable days. Um, they're they're so fun um and rare, and just you you gotta appreciate the beauty when you're in it. Um my other answer, this is weird, but I would go back like 25 years, and I went, I I spent a summer in Egypt when I was in college um with a bunch of other college kids. We were working on stuff over there, and we went to this really cool area um that was like very hippie, like like scuba diving community, and we just hung out on the beach all day and scuba dived and like sat around and had some drinks and like these couches that are on the beach in the sand after, and it was just like a beautiful, beautiful day. I think we stayed in a hotel that I paid one dollar a night for, and it was still like the best trip I ever had.

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 28:53

That is amazing. That is a day to relive. I feel like that's the perfect answer. Like, you're like, I'm an adult now, I love to spend time with my kids. But when I wasn't a school adult, I lived a life. Yep, yep. And I would like to maybe just get to revisit that time. Yeah, absolutely. Maybe one day I'll bring the kids back. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for your time and coming on the show. If you want to catch us next week, next week's episode, we'll be with Beth Malik and Don Fridel, our current president and president-elect of the board. Holly serves on our board too, so she is very familiar with both of them. But we're gonna dive into um the track, new the new programming at TMSA and why we're kind of heading in this direction. So very excited to talk to both of them. And of course, Holly, always a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you for coming on the show, and I'll see you in a couple weeks.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Thanks for having me. We'll see ya.

Jennifer Karpus-Romain 29:46

Thank you.